max
New Member
Posts: 31 
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Post by max on Nov 8, 2015 22:58:55 GMT
IMHO, trolls are not a true part of the community. They join for one reason, and one reason only: to provoke. Trolls are not trying to participate or engage. Another way someone can troll is to come to a forum and set up an argument to get a specific response in order to prove some kind of point. Another way someone can troll is by joining a forum under false pretenses to manipulate the members of the forum. And then there are some trolls who just come by to poke the bears. IOW they are sadistic jerks who come and say things just to get a reaction. I have never seen a troll who ever participates in an appropriate way. They always instigate, and they usually don't stick around for long, or if they do, they cycle through personas, thinking they can keep their identity secret, but you can often tell in their syntax that you already "know" them. I have seen people be accused of trolling when I don't think they are trolling. It is usually that they said something someone else doesn't like. But usually, if you look around the site, they will be engaging in appropriate interactions in other places. Sometimes it also happens to new posters who's first post seems...too manipulative to be true. The sad thing is, on a forum that draws autistics, it can sometimes be that they don't have the communication skills they need and they really need help. There is the problem. People are accused of trolling, who are not. If it happens to be a moderator who is accusing them, then they get banned. Just because the mod didn’t like what they said. The word is so vague, that it could apply to anyone, at one time or another. You can’t carry on serious debates with anyone on the internet, without being called a troll at some point. It’s not something that people should be banned for. |
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itt2
Junior Member
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Post by itt2 on Nov 9, 2015 0:05:18 GMT
I don't agree. A true troll can be uncovered by their pattern of only provocative/negative participation. THey also usually have only a very short membership, unless they have been hopping identities.
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Post by btbnnyr on Nov 9, 2015 0:11:20 GMT
I think one rule about not attacking others personally is fine here.
This is common rule on forums, and not too restrictive.
I never had a problem with this rule on wp or any other forum.
I don't have problem with wp either.
I just came here because I saw that OOM started this forum.
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max
New Member
Posts: 31
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Post by max on Nov 9, 2015 11:05:26 GMT
I don't agree. A true troll can be uncovered by their pattern of only provocative/negative participation. THey also usually have only a very short membership, unless they have been hopping identities. You are contradicting yourself. You say that trolls can be uncovered by their pattern. Then you say they usually have only a very short membership. What kind of pattern can you find in a short membership? Generally a pattern is discovered over a period of time, not a short time. Unless you are saying that the pattern is that new members tend to be trolls, so new members should be banned. Which would be a really bad policy. |
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itt2
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by itt2 on Nov 9, 2015 11:55:30 GMT
THe critical piece is the pattern of *negative/provocative posts* in the absence of any productive participation. Perhaps instead of pattern, I should have said ratio.
Of course all new members should not be banned. Most new members do not come to the forum and have a high ratio of negative/provocative posts,
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Post by OOM on Nov 16, 2015 4:06:12 GMT
There is a difference between having too many rules and no rules at all. There is a difference between having an appropriate amount of common sense rules that everyone can agree on and having a free for all anarchy. We have to have some rules, simply to prevent chaos and spammers and flamers overtaking the place. Not all the WP rules are bad, and many are basic rules that every forum has. Things like attack the opinion and not the person, don't spam, don't solicit money, don't flood the forum with troll posts that are obvioulsy there just to incite arguments. Those kinds of rules are the ones I want.
The ones I don't want are the kind that say you can't say something that might trigger someone, or that you have to respect everyone elses opinion or belief, or that you cannot state an opinion that is racist, misogynist, ableist, homophobic, ageist, etc etc etc. Sure you can state those opinions but you can't very well expect others to not call you on them. That is the main difference between here and there.
Our rules will be rules for adults. Adults who have brains in our heads and the ability to move on past an online insult and to agree to disagree and not to insist that some moderator slap the hand of the person who wrote something you didnt like. Many of WP's rules are rules for Kindergarden where everyone is treated with kid gloves and have their hands held and boo-boo's kissed and a fuss made over them if someone hurts their feelings. Those are the rules I don't want. I expect us all to act like the adults we are, and to solve any problems among ourselves and if need be to bring a mod in to mediate the issue. That is why I want mods. Also to ban trolls, get rid of spam, and do all that stuff.
It's NOT going to be like WP where the rules are concerned, and just because we will have some rules doesn't mean we will have WP level rules or too many rules. Without rules of any sort, and without mods of any sort, before long it would be impossible to use the forum or do much reading on it because of the spam and trolling.
Please bear with me and give my idea a try. Trust me, I'm not a rules gal and I want to have as few rules as we can possibly have. I don't mind what opinions you say or how you say them, but I do ask that you don't attack the person but only the opinion. That isn't to prevent somebodys feelings from being hurt, that is simply to help keep the debate going. I'm certainly going to be more inclined to continue a conversation with somebody who says "You're idea is idiotic and you would have to be brain dead to believe it would work" rather than "You're just a fucking idiot and thinking it would work shows that you're brain dead". See the difference? It's more conducive to keeping conversation going to attack ideas rather than the person.
If you give it a try and think the rules are too much, please let me know and if the majority agrees, then I'll certainly get rid of them. Please give me a chance to try it my way for a bit first. I do think you will like it. Rules are not always WP level rules. Even if some of them are similar.
I'm for speaking our minds, and I want that to happen here. I only ask for common sense an civility to a point. So, what do you say? Give it a whirl? If anybody thinks the mods have come down too hard on something, let me know. We are all learning how to do this right now and mistakes will be made, but that's how we learn. Stay here, help us out, learn with us, and help teach. This is our forum, not mine, so lets work it out and compromise and fiddle with it until we get it how we want it.
What ya'll say about that?
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Post by OOM on Nov 16, 2015 4:09:38 GMT
As for trolls, we could probably just leave them alone if we suspect they are trolling, and either answer them or not answer them if you want to do that. If they are trolls then they will just keep on with their troll bullshit until it becomes really obvious. Then if they start bothering people enough,, we could ban them. Maybe we could even have a protocol for messaging a mod with a request to ban a particular person you think is a troll and if enough others have asked for it as well, then we ban. If a troll is just trolling and not really causing problems, just let them stay unless they upset too many people. Some people enjoy messing with trolls too. So, it's whatever yall want to do.
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